The Charleston Marketing Podcast
Welcome to The Charleston Marketing Podcast, the podcast that dives deep into the world of marketing, with a specific focus on the vibrant city of Charleston. Join us as we explore the strategies, trends, and success stories that shape the marketing landscape in this historic and captivating coastal city.
Each episode of The Charleston Marketing Podcast brings you exclusive interviews with local marketing experts, industry thought leaders and Charleston entrepreneurs who have harnessed the power of effective marketing in the Lowcountry and beyond. From strategic communication, social media, PR, digital strategy and everything in between, we uncover valuable insights and actionable tips for our listeners.
The Charleston Marketing Podcast
Ben Towill: Culinary Mastery, Sustainable Food, and Epic Adventures
What drives someone to leave behind the culinary grandeur of New York City for the historic charm of Charleston? Discover the compelling journey of Ben, an English-born restaurateur who trained under Gordon Ramsay before planting roots in the South. We promise you'll gain insights into his motivations for this life-changing move, his dedication to sustainable food systems, and the monumental feat of rowing across the Atlantic Ocean.
Join us as we spotlight the dynamic duo behind Basic Projects. Ben and his wife Kate, whose impressive background in set design includes work on Wes Anderson films, share their transformative experiences. From the bustling streets of NYC, where Ben managed The Fat Radish, to opening Basic Kitchen in 2017, learn how they navigated the challenges of launching a successful restaurant in Charleston. Their story is one of resilience and innovation, epitomized by strategic decisions like adding a hamburger to their menu to expand their appeal.
But their adventures don't stop at the kitchen. Get inspired by their cross-country biking odyssey, the story of their friend Charlie’s transformation through cycling, and the riveting 3,000-mile nautical race they completed as the Dreamboats team. You'll hear about the life lessons they've gleaned from these incredible journeys—lessons in teamwork, community, and the power of perseverance. Tune in for a captivating episode that marries culinary ambition with extraordinary adventure.
Presenting Sponsor: Charleston Radio Group
Title Sponsor: Charleston American Marketing Association
Cohosts: Stephanie Barrow, Mike Compton, Darius Kelly, Kim Russo
Produced and edited: rūmbo Advertising
Photographer: Kelli Morse
Art Director: Taylor Ion
Outreach: Lauren Ellis
CAMA President: Margaret Stypa
Score by: The Strawberry Entrée; Jerry Feels Good, CURRYSAUCE, DBLCRWN, DJ DollaMenu
Voiceover by: Ellison Karesh
Studio Engineer: Brian Cleary
YouTube
Facebook
...
Welcome to the Charleston Marketing Podcast, powered by the Charleston American Marketing Association, broadcasting from our home base at Charleston Radio Group. Thanks to CRG, we're able to talk to the movers and shakers of Charleston, from economy to art, from hospitality to tech and everything in between. These leaders have made a home here in the Lowcountry. They live here, they work here, they make change here. Why? Let's talk about it?
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Charleston Marketing Podcast powered by the Charleston American Marketing Association. We're here recording at the Charleston Radio Group Studios. A big supporter of PAMO Got to give a shout out to Charleston's favorite DJ Jerry Feels Good with the beats at the beginning. And thanks to all of our supporters. My name is Mike Compton. I'm president of Roomba Advertising goroombocom and your director of membership experience for the Charleston American Marketing Association. Thanks for joining us. I'm here with my fellow co-host, stephanie Barrow. Steph, what's up?
Speaker 3:Hey guys, what's up. I'm Stephanie Barrow and I am the founder of Stephanie Barrow Consulting, a digital marketing strategy agency here in Charleston, and I am your Cama Pass president. We are very excited to be joined by a very special guest, Ben say hello.
Speaker 4:Hello everyone.
Speaker 3:I'm going to do the awkward thing now where I'm going to read your bio in front of you and I'm going to try very hard to say all of these English words very properly.
Speaker 2:Oh, she wants that.
Speaker 3:So here we go. Ben is an English-born restauranteur and career adventurer based in Charleston. I'm going to give that up now South Carolina. Ben and his wife Kate who's precious, by the way launched their hospitality brand Basic Projects in 2015. Most recently, he completed the Talisker Whiskey Atlantic Challenge, a 3,000 mile nautical race across the Atlantic Ocean, which raised over $150,000 for Greenheart, a local food nonprofit. Ben's passions for healthy, inspired living and sustainable food systems drive the mission of Basic Projects as the company continues to create an ever-expanding collection of unique spaces, experiences and products that inspire people to live better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is awesome. You know what? You inspired me to live better.
Speaker 3:I did this morning.
Speaker 2:How yeah, I listened to the podcast you did with Sarah Frick.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting there trying to do some research and I'm getting ready to jog. I like to jog and do podcasts. Sometimes I church and jog.
Speaker 3:Multi-talented yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going two miles here. Right, that's my mission right now, but this guy did 40 days on the Atlantic. We'll get to that later. Yes, but as I'm listening to the podcast, I'm going. I'm just like, okay, I can go, give me four miles. Okay, compton, give me four miles here.
Speaker 4:So you, know you got inspired one guy today. I like to hear that You're welcome. Thank you.
Speaker 3:And and thanks for coming on the show. We're really excited to have you. I'm excited to have you because I remember a couple years ago I was introduced number one. I go to your restaurant, so we'll tackle that later but, I want you to talk about.
Speaker 3:I loved your coffee. Talk with us yeah, that was at Basic Kitchen so you opened one of your restaurants up to us and it was awesome. So I want to start at the beginning, because I love a good story and I love to hear people's reason why they came to Charleston. And you were living in New York City, I was.
Speaker 4:Where are you from?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's an English-born man.
Speaker 4:My background, quickly, is from England and I didn't finish high school. I went straight into the culinary world and I did an apprenticeship at 16. And I trained with these incredible chefs one who you probably know as Gordon Ramsay and I came to America with Gordon Ramsay to open his restaurant in New York and then left that restaurant, started my own and eventually we had four restaurants in New York and a catering business and I'd sort of done all the things I wanted to do there. I'd been there for 10 years and I'd met my wife, kate, in one of the restaurants it was called Fat Radish and we decided what's the next chapter, what's the next adventure look like? And so I came down and visited Charleston, where that's where we decided to do chapter two. What year was that? That was so.
Speaker 3:that was 2014 or 2013 okay, like the buzz of Charleston was making it up to New York about being you know it was.
Speaker 4:We know exactly. There was the food side and and husk was sort of the big name that was being, and just generally the city felt an exciting place to be and lots of opportunity. And here we are, 10 years later.
Speaker 3:We have a lot of James Beard award-winning chefs here in Charleston, so I can see why the buzz was making it up to the Big Apple.
Speaker 4:Exactly, and if you talk to most a lot of people you know, 10 years in, like a big city like new york tends to be like either you're in it for the long haul and you're doubling down, or you're like I'm, I'm out and yeah, I was out, so you and gardo worked together, side by side, for 10 years.
Speaker 2:I don't know if we did side by side yeah yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4:that's a whole other story that I don't think we've got time for.
Speaker 2:Wow, my gosh, Every little onion I peel from Ben here I get more impressed.
Speaker 4:I've got to experience lots of fun things.
Speaker 2:In New York City.
Speaker 4:And learn lots. That's crazy, you know you get to. I work for three very well-known chefs, but Gordon is best known here in the US. But Raymond Blanc was another chef who's arguably one of the most famous chefs in the UK, and then another guy called Rick Stein who's the best boss I ever had and he's the most well-known seafood chef in Cornwall, where I'm from, and so I learned a lot from each of those three folks. So, yeah, I love the restaurant business and hospitality and I've been in it since I was 16 so you were an apprentice at 16 and you're just your.
Speaker 3:Your charm and wit and skill just opened all these doors like, how do you go?
Speaker 4:no, no, I, I work my tail off and people don't see that, like you know. That's the other thing I see now. Like I'll give you what an apprenticeship looks like at a three mission style restaurant. It's, at the time, was seven thousand pounds a year. I'd left home, by the way, I was, I just I didn't speak my folks. So, uh, seven thousand pounds a year, 80 to 90 hour work week. You clean all your laundry, all your own clothes pressed. Uh, if you haven't shaved and you're sent home. You polish your shoes. You're not allowed to talk. Wow. Uh, you work around the stations. It is a. It's like being in the military and you learn
Speaker 4:how to treat food and ingredients and work and with so much respect and detail and it's just a whole other world. And then when I was told I could come to america, you know now you kind of do sort people's visas out and you you work with them. But um, when I got told by gordon ramsey like there was an opportunity to get america, it was like, well, you pay your own ticket, you pay your own visa. So I started working as the in the kitchen, I was the sous chef in, I then became the guy who made the coffee at night and I would wash the dishes, so just anything to earn extra money to, because I had this real cost of moving country. And then I got to america and I was like, oh my god this place is uh 22 this place is.
Speaker 4:We speak the same language, but that's about the only thing you know that we have in common. So I found it very difficult initially to transition to to the us, because it was just so foreign and different. But New York was magic.
Speaker 2:You went right to New York City.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly. So I just think that idea of when people hear stories and I'm going to sit here on a podcast and go to restaurants. But yeah, you make your own doors, you create your own luck and it's there for the taking if you want to do it.
Speaker 2:When you were going through the culinary school. What did you call it again?
Speaker 4:And it's an apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:Apprenticeship, and I think we're missing that. How old were you?
Speaker 4:I was 16, 17, and 18.
Speaker 2:That's when you started the apprenticeship. That's impressive.
Speaker 4:And then I came out and I'm in the world's your oyster. You go anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:First thing they say on your application for a visa to the United States is college education, and the only thing that gets you past that is culinary Interesting, scratch it out and put chef Good to know. Yeah, so if you're out there listening and you're thinking, I want to go travel the world.
Speaker 2:Our podcast gets a lot of downloads overseas.
Speaker 4:I mean, if you want to travel the world, happen now, be a be, learn how to cook, and then you go anywhere you want love it that's good, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Did you eat? I love a love story, so excuse me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, sure, here we go so here we go.
Speaker 3:I love who doesn't well, I also love, I love I love his wife because I met her at the coffee talk. Yeah, was she working alongside you in new york, or how did you guys?
Speaker 4:no, no kate um k. Kate came into the restaurant, probably a mutual friend, and you want the true story and it'd be quick is I had met her when I was a sort of not, I was a lowly chef and she came into the restaurant and I worked for someone. She knew and I was very much in the background. Obviously, I noticed Kate and fast forward like four years. I then had opened my own restaurant and she came in there and I said do you remember me?
Speaker 4:She's like, I remember you four years later she's like oh yeah, you were the guy in the background. This was probably 26 at that point.
Speaker 2:Four years after you made it to the motherland. Yeah, exactly, I mean no, true so?
Speaker 4:we met, and that's it. When you know, you know.
Speaker 3:I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:And then. So I'm sorry, what did she do for the group?
Speaker 4:Oh no, kay was in the film world. She did set design oh that's cool. Yeah, she did some, and then she she did Moonrise Kingdom for Wes Anderson.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great movie. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was the last one that was Academy nominated, right?
Speaker 4:I think that was that and All Grand Budapest Hotel.
Speaker 3:Both of those Films are so hard. All Things by Wes Anderson.
Speaker 4:Amazing. Yeah, it's hard work. Yes, yeah, I don't know, I'm not in the film business.
Speaker 2:It's a lot like the restaurant. It's a lot of work, yeah, and you're away.
Speaker 4:You're just away for extended periods of time. So she got into design and interior design.
Speaker 3:This is why this is the perfect pairing, because you're the chef no kidding. And she has the vision of design and that kind of thing. So you bring the clear vision of good food, thoughtful design, exceptional service and then that's it.
Speaker 4:That's it. Well, it's definitely not just Kate and I. There's a lot of other people with that. I know Just the exceptional point, yeah, so hold on now.
Speaker 2:The timeline is we met Kate right, and now we're 26. And how long did we stay in New York City then?
Speaker 4:Another six years then no, until I was probably in my early 30s.
Speaker 2:Okay, so rocking the New York City scene. Just killing these restaurants slaying it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, fat Radish was probably one of the most it was. I can say this it was just this moment in time. We opened one of the restaurants. That was just.
Speaker 4:It was what's it called now it was called the fat radish and it was kind of the new york restaurant and we were on the lurie side in the on, just in chinatown, and on any given day we just we wrote cookbook, we cooked for everyone. We were sent all over the world to do pop-ups. You'd go in there and you'd have elton, john and taylor swift and just everyone was in this restaurant are you the head chef too?
Speaker 3:I was the head chef then, that's so impressive and that just became it was.
Speaker 4:It was a just a stroke of luck and we rode that wave, so food was good place was cool. My business partner was a legend um, it was just delicious seasonal cooking and and it was a really fun little space and it was very unexpected. So you just somehow capture a moment and a place like new york.
Speaker 2:You can do that and we did it, and so now you're doing it here in charleston.
Speaker 4:So it's different here. How long did?
Speaker 2:it take you, once you moved here, to get acclimated. First of all, where did you land when you moved here?
Speaker 4:moved here, moved here, lived downtown, um, and yeah, love the city. We've done some, we started doing some. We're out of the restaurant business for a while. We did a bit of property renovation. Example we're chasing a restaurant called Chasing Sages. We kind of redeveloped that building and restored it and we did that in Savannah and Charleston and then Basic Kitchen was our first restaurant in 2017.
Speaker 3:so this is designed by the way yeah, base kitchen was.
Speaker 4:We got off to an interesting start. Uh, you know, I thought it'd be a good idea to open a basically a vegetarian restaurant, in the south in 2017, which was a terrible idea, and so, yeah, we had like a. It was a few misses, and then we decided it was a good moment, where one of our customers said, man, just put a hamburger on the menu and then you'll kind of capture everyone.
Speaker 4:And I was, and we did, and we now sell the same amount of basic bowls which is of baseball, and then, as we do, uh naughty burgers which come from a you know your sweet potato fries are legit, so yeah, so there you go that's lesson learned like listen to your customers. Everyone's rooting for you, but just like speak to her yeah, there's a little marketing tip I like that, yeah, so it was did. I love her own design shop on the side like she, she and we just sort of joined forces. Yeah, as then created basic projects exactly and I started work for her. It's going great.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome. And then you opened up, you said Basic Kitchen came first.
Speaker 4:Basic Kitchen came first, and then we did some stuff in Savannah. What?
Speaker 2:was Savannah, a restaurant.
Speaker 4:We had an apartment hotel called the Winrose, and you're you're chefing all these. No, no, I'm no longer chefing at this point.
Speaker 4:So he's doing interior design and now you're just hanging out with the, so truth, truth, truth be told, I, I got out of the kitchen in New York before I left. We had four restaurants in New York and we had a very busy events business and I wasn't cooking anymore. And and if I, um, and I'm not cooking now I like I love food I kind of, uh, cooking got me out of it, got me to yeah.
Speaker 4:I cooked so much and worked so many hours I kind of over, I overcooked it and uh yeah, you're cooking. So there was a point where I just now focus on running our business. We've got 250 employees and that comes with. Just you said how many 250. Oh my gosh, and so you've got to create an environment that's good for them to work in a culture and just all that goes with running and growing our business is what I focus on, and we've got some amazing folks who head the culinary program.
Speaker 3:And all of your items in your restaurants are like locally sourced right, exactly, yeah, well, we work.
Speaker 4:I mean not everything. We work. We probably work with all the farmers and seafood guys and meat guys to know where our food's coming from.
Speaker 2:You went to chef, from chef to CEO.
Speaker 4:Chef, yeah, chef, to owning and running the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a big one 250 employees, that's not a small shop.
Speaker 4:No, it's a good shop and you said three. Three restaurants and with some focus on some growth, with Basic Kitchen as our next goal. So yeah, charles is the best place to be doing it love it I really want to focus on.
Speaker 2:Why do you think that? Why do you think charleston's?
Speaker 4:so great because we've got a real mix. We've got a lot of happy, happy residents on the whole uh, who like love living here. You always want to live in a place where people go on vacation absolutely but the only thing that can.
Speaker 4:That gets challenging is if you're only in this well, charleston's a kind of living, breathing, robust city where people could you know, there's industry, there's the port. It's just, and it's got better. In my opinion, and maybe a lot of people might disagree, I think it's got better and better as we've got you know, as this place is growing and new ideas have come.
Speaker 3:And I love the hospitality industry. It's not seasonal, it's year-round celebrated.
Speaker 4:I think that makes a big difference for us exactly. So, whether it's the programming that happens throughout the city seaweed, wine and food, spoleto, and so on and so forth and there's just enough big weddings it's enough to really have a robust business year round, which was really really awesome.
Speaker 3:My husband and I go to a new restaurant every month. So we make like a date night out of it and go downtown or wherever it is.
Speaker 4:I love that. That's great. That's fantastic. And now you're going to join us for Father's Day. Yeah, we're coming here. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:There going to join us for father's day?
Speaker 1:yeah, we're coming here, yes, yes, so this is a marketing podcast.
Speaker 3:I'm going to ask a marketing question. I think it's so crazy when someone who is so successful in another city can come here and and almost in a way, seamlessly build a brand in a city that they have no like history and how do you do that and why wouldn't you just bring the radish down here?
Speaker 4:because, well, I don't know if that that was an option or one of your concepts.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, you know any one of your concepts well, two questions.
Speaker 4:First question is why? Why would you do? Is how do you do that? And I think it wasn't seamless at all there was lots of. Uh, we know base kitchen was a total disaster at the beginning and I think charleston's a totally different market in what works in New York.
Speaker 4:This is getting to the second one it doesn't necessarily work in Charleston and what works in Charleston maybe won't work in New York. So, understanding the city that you're in, the customer base, the ingredients, the way people eat, you know people used to come into Basic Kitchen because it's downtown, it's close to sort of south abroad.
Speaker 4:They would come in and like a you know, a jacket and like loafers and I'd be like oh my god, wrong vibe, like we're selling like bowls and and you know we hadn't worked out who we're talking to and and we were kind of a new concept. So now it's kind of everyone we're very busy on. You know, our main business is kind of lunch and early dinners and families. So we found our stride. We know our audience, but definitely when you come to a city, don't assume that you can take something that works in one place and it all translates to the other. I think that's a mistake a lot of people make and Charleston is a tricky market. It's all about understanding the locals and getting them to buy in and what you're doing and looking after them, and then the concierge and the hotels will send business your way.
Speaker 4:The wedding planners will send you know. It's really um. Yeah, I think it's the mistake I see people make here as they come in and they think, man, I did it in this city, so I can do it here, and people like, well, it ain't that you've done a good job with keeping like the aesthetic of your restaurants and your social media and your website all consistent it looks very much like you.
Speaker 3:When I went into sullivan's fish camp for the first time, I was like I can tell the the.
Speaker 2:You know the small details and they're all very charleston too, right?
Speaker 3:yes, but not in a cheesy like. Not in a cheesy like like it's. It's your own vibe, like I love. It's very, very basic projects walking in from the menu choices like this is a smaller menu, it's not. You're not overwhelmed. Everything's locally sourced and it just it's got a beautiful spin on the city. I think you've really embraced that in a really different way that a lot of other restaurants haven't.
Speaker 4:Well, thanks. Well, we start every week. We honestly feel like, oh my God. We don't reimagine everything every week, but we are always. If you were to go into the basic kitchen today and if you went in there six years ago, it's totally different.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 4:But it's small stuff, so we're always kind of upgrading or changing or you know it's. That's the game you've got to keep moving forward and, you know, just keeping relevant and vibrant.
Speaker 2:And you guys are crazy talented um, and it almost looks like you said that kate was a film art designer that's what it looks like. Right somebody, yeah Somebody because there's a lot of intentionality. When you have a film and you're kind of art direct a film, it's a lot of time and resources and thought power to do the littlest things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's very much Kate's world. Yeah, love that.
Speaker 2:I would hang out with her have a coffee. I'm excited to check out the Post House Inn we will.
Speaker 3:You just bought that. What now post house? Yeah, the post well, it's new.
Speaker 4:We did um. I think we were um 20, 20, uh, 19 I'm behind the curve and then um 2020, we were ready to open, and then, obviously, march of 2020 we already opened it happened. We end up getting open in the summer of 2020 okay, covid um, so wait time out?
Speaker 2:um, you're, you're, you're you and gordo hung out for a while. You're doing all this in new york city. You're building these restaurants. Are you, at that point, a career adventurer, or did you wait to you? What point are you starting this career adventure? I don't know if we need to it's career adventure I like it, we're gonna point.
Speaker 4:Honestly, I don't know why. Why it's in there.
Speaker 3:I didn't write that's great, I love it. Um what was your first?
Speaker 4:let's we just talk about what is career adventure me? What I mean by that, because it sounds very pretentious, so like let's, let's get into it, um, but basically I believe that one we're capable of doing much more than we think we are, and and I think it's really important to take on challenges outside of your kind of everyday routine, um, and so some of the things that I have done. It all started with riding my bike across the us, um, and having this incredible, um experience. I was, I was in between jobs. After I moved it, I left new york, came down here okay I was looking for stuff.
Speaker 4:Nothing was kind of hitting here and I lived in america. I didn't know what america was really like. I've flown over, I'd driven, but but I really wanted to understand this place. I'm going to call home and raise a family, so I went to the trek bike store in mount pleasant oh I've been there and I said to the guy behind there.
Speaker 3:You haven't rode across this. I have not ridden across this.
Speaker 4:I said I would like to buy a bicycle and he said what are you looking to do? I said I'm going to bike across America to start it next week. And he's like, oh my God. So I looked at the map. There's a thing called Route 22 or 26. And through 16 states and um, I set off from virginia beach and I told kate I'd meet her in colorado and um, I ended up writing a story for the new york times, uh, about it was really positive, a dispatch once a week, positive food stories on my, on my kind of journey across the us. And so I would sleep in churches and fire stations, in restaurants and visit farmers and food banks and meet people and um, and then do a weekly dispatch. And I did that, met kate, colorado, and then we did colorado to oregon together and um, and it was life-changing and I'm oh, that's cool, you guys are together.
Speaker 2:Where's the all romances over there? I was gonna say, are you riding alone for the beginning of you know?
Speaker 3:no, some, some parts were and some parts were kate's brother who's a photographer. That's cool. You guys live together. Where's the oh Romance is over there? I was going to say are you riding alone for the beginning of this trip?
Speaker 4:No, some parts were, and some parts were with Kate's brother who's a photographer.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:So we did that and then. So that's what started it and I loved it and I thought my God, if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, what am I? Most proud of, and honestly, riding my bicycle across America at that time was it.
Speaker 3:That's huge.
Speaker 4:Not the restaurants or the podcasts or the books or whatever it was all about. I got to experience that. I got to meet those people. I got to take that time to do that. So that's what was the impetus for these challenges.
Speaker 3:You need your own TV show, so you documented it too.
Speaker 2:You were able to document this. I mean it got documented. That's really neat.
Speaker 3:You got too. You were able to document this. I mean it's pretty cool it got. Yeah, I got documented. Yeah, I think you got paid to do that.
Speaker 2:No, I very rarely would get paid to write. He was branding from the beginning, before basic kitchens was even thing, he was already working on his branding. Yeah, yes, that's amazing. So that's how it started, and how long did it take you to?
Speaker 4:go across. It took about uh, two, two months, two and a bit months. Wow, 80 miles a day, which for people who know about cross-country cycling, they'd be like that's very slow but we weren't moving. You can do 120 miles a day and fly across. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So Kate takes in these adventures with you.
Speaker 4:On some she does. Yeah, she didn't want to row across the Atlantic.
Speaker 2:We haven't gone there yet. So what was after? So that's a lot, but you were already here kind of feeling it out. And then what a really neat thing to do, to, like you said, to know your country, to really go across it on your bike.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I, I love, I love him, I love, I, I love living here. I feel I got to really know parts of this country doing that and experience things, and I had it for just a.
Speaker 2:So did you and Charlie just kind of like run into each other on a bike? No, no, charlie and I so Charlie worked for my.
Speaker 4:So in all this, we Enter Charlie, enter Charlie. So where does Charlie come into it? Charlie, my brother is my younger brother is a chef and we opened. Well, he opened a restaurant and I helped him. In the UK it's an old pub that we kind of grew up going to on the water in Cornwall called the Ferry Boat Inn, and Kate and I went across and did all the design for him and Charlie was the head chef there Cool. And so Charlie was looking for a change. He'd been, and I asked him to come out to the us and help me with basic kitchen, which was on life support. Um, and so he did, and I gave him the bicycle that I rode across america on as the company car because I didn't have any money come on and charlie started riding and he made amazing inroads into basic kitchen and um he was riding, you know 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 up to it.
Speaker 4:Then he's got about 100 miles a week on the bike, lost a lot of weight, shape of his life, changed the way he lived and then covet happened where is this? Bike. The bike's called peggy, he still has it.
Speaker 2:I think this bike has. I can't called Peggy, he still has it.
Speaker 4:I think this bike has. I can't even imagine how many miles.
Speaker 3:You still have the bike.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, he still rides it.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's amazing he's not here right now.
Speaker 4:He probably would be. Yeah, so COVID happened, and then Charlie and I and I'm just going to have a pause, and just you know, covered in the hospitality you can't, um, totally, if you can, you know.
Speaker 4:I think people say, oh, this has got all easy for this guy we were all in in lots of different areas and thinking and and covert happened um, and I'll just give you like lost the rest. You know my brother took one of the restaurants. We lost two of the. The others in the uk lost the restaurants in savannah, the sort of fire sell some stuff. We had sullivan's fish camp. We had signed the lease but just sat on that so we were hemorrhaging money there. We had post house ready to go but I'd lay off all the team that we just hired for that. And then base kitchen was um, you know we we did like take out for a second but you know my kate was pregnant you know, so we were, we that that was a real reset in um and charlie and I kind of bonded.
Speaker 4:We just at base kitchen one day doing like delivery boxes to anyone who who would um, who would do it. And we talked about rowing and I was like you know, I think about, I've always want to row the atlantic I'm thinking like we're not, nothing else is going on and I really need something.
Speaker 4:I'm drinking too much, I'm pretty depressed, I I'm so stressed I could kind of refocus my efforts, um, and like I'm thinking man, this may be a good time to do this road. It's like a year, year, two year journey to get there.
Speaker 2:And he's like man, I've always wanted to ride the atlantic too what so you guys just, and I was like, well, it's in the uk, in the uk there was a documentary about and so we're like, oh, wow, let's sign up.
Speaker 4:So we, we, we did and and again. I'm just this is for people who want to do stuff, if you want to do something. I'm telling you this because people say to me oh, it's all right for you, it's easy for you. I emailed the lady so I want to sign up to really atlantic. No experience, never rode before. I emailed her. I said you know this part of an organization you have to qualify to get there. What rolling experience you have. No, we're full, you can't get on. There's covid shut everything down. I emailed this lady every day for like a month wow just like it's ben.
Speaker 4:Again, I'm, I'm, I know I'm gonna roll the atlantic. And eventually she turned around and said if you're this determined to get to the start line in this year, you've got what it takes. And she said I'll give you a place. And I was like, okay, great, well, now I need a boat. And then I started. And so I started the next part of that journey. And then, again on the boat, the guy it was coveted too. He was like no one was responding. I end up just getting on a plane. And I turned up to his farm in essex where he makes the boats, and I said I'm the guy who's been emailing you and calling you for months and I need the boat. And he's like okay, come on with me, this is going to be your boat. I'm going to put it in the front and we got it shipped here three months later.
Speaker 4:So it does take something. You got to dig deep if you want stuff and um and so. So that's just a little snippet of like what it takes to do stuff like this. It's not just like oh man, I didn't get a response like, I guess I'm not doing it right the follow-up.
Speaker 3:No, no follow-up I'm doing this yeah, the only thing that's in my way is you, if you want to do it yeah that's great, that's the most dangerous thing you've ever done, because this all of this sounds dangerous to someone like me who's like I'm not. I have never rent run a marathon before. I'm just gonna go decide to do. I'll probably have been cardiac arrest.
Speaker 4:I think it's. I guess you're talking about fear, right, danger, and fear to you know, if you're prepared and you're you know, is it dangerous to go and run a marathon if you're not in shape or like no, if you've done all the check stuff and you've put some work in? Is it dangerous? No, is fear a reason not to do something? You know? Yeah, that's so I think. I think danger, obviously, rowing across the atlantic in a 24-foot rowing boat at sea with no, you know there's a level of danger there. Hold on a second wait.
Speaker 2:The listeners don't know what that is sorry, I'm bouncing dream boats here. So this entered dream boats. Okay, right, yes, what you're during covid, and it wasn't just like one of those. Oh well, it's the end of the world. So let's go rowboat across the atlantic. No, you guys really, really wanted to do that. It was like kinsmen, you guys. Yeah, but the the dangerous thing. Go ahead and tell the story about dream boats, man, I mean.
Speaker 4:So just to get the dream boats, I'm a big believer that when stuff's not going well and we see this in the hospitality business you've got two choices. My dad died of alcoholism when I was five, drank himself to death and you've got a few choices in life. You can either sit there and wallow in it or you can be proactive about it. So I'm a big believer when stuff's not going right, it's like dig deep, find the things that are positive, like redirects and and. So that's how the dream boats really came about, because, while falling apart, I know I can. I know I can focus on this and it's really positive. I'm gonna get in shape. You've got control over this exactly. So dream boats we signed up to to. Did you have a kid? Yet I did. I have a three-year-old and kate was pregnant. So, um. So, kate, if we're going into the dreamboats, we we signed up for the the race.
Speaker 4:It's a two-year journey to get there. You've got to raise a lot of money. Sponsors, I mean. I mean example would be who's going to sponsor an ocean rowing team that have never rowed an ocean? They don't have a boat. In fact, they never even rowed a boat at the time. So we were like calling people up, knocking on doors, being like, hey, you know, looking for a major sponsor for our boat, like what do you guys do? Eventually, we got a cosmetic dentist here in Charleston.
Speaker 2:How did you how?
Speaker 4:did you get land that we're two brits with bad teeth and they're looking for exposure. So, um, where's the commercial? So, yeah, we, we got we, they signed on and and it gave us the opportunity to buy the boat, and got the boat here and and then we started this incredible journey of absolute intense focus and preparation to get to the start line, and that is physically getting in shape, mentally getting in shape, having incredibly hard conversations with both one another. The number one thing that goes wrong when you are rowing 3 000 miles across the atlantic unsupported, unaided, 24 hours a day, non-stop, is a breakdown in relationship, because once that relationship breaks down, like anything in life, it's very hard to function as a team.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think. So. You've got to stress, test that relationship and you've got to say, and I'm going to tell you like, if some, if something happens to someone on land, like do you want to know that that's happened, because there's nothing we can do when we're out there the quickest way. So I'm going to give a conversation Charlie and I have to have. If one of my children dies while I'm there, dear Lord, is it helpful to know that? Yeah, why out at sea? Is it going to make the boat safer? I have to ultimately get there.
Speaker 4:And the only way of getting there is on my rowing boat, so are you mentally thinking about this. The thing is in life have those conversations before you set off, in case they happen, right.
Speaker 3:Do you have a will?
Speaker 4:and all of those things. Yeah, so we went, we, charlie and I, dug so deep into that relationship that when stuff did go wrong at sea and it did we sort of said well, and we're so fatigued because you're sleeping for such a little period of time you can and it's a good thing for starting a business or anything that you're doing have like really hard conversations out front about what might and can go wrong. And it might not go wrong, but if it does go wrong, at least like okay, when we were not tired, not in the middle and not scared, this is what we agreed to one another and like let's stick to that plan because it seemed like a good one when we were there, because obviously, when you're tired and hungry and scared, you're like no, absolutely totally different story I'm sure you could get sick and sunburn.
Speaker 2:Oh no, he got sick yes we, so yes sorry, the uh Sarah Frick is it is that right yeah that interview with her, yeah was amazing. So listen to that interview listeners, because you really go. I mean I was like oh my god, so super dangerous stuff all I can think of is cast away and blisters.
Speaker 4:It's all that, yeah so you're off, so you set off from Antigua 40 days.
Speaker 2:Right, it took us 40 days. It took you 40 days.
Speaker 4:Charlie and I rode. One person would ride for two hours and the other person would eat, wash and sleep for the two hours and then you'd swap. You'd do that 24 hours a day for 40 days and answer questions.
Speaker 2:Does that not just blow your mind right?
Speaker 3:there it does.
Speaker 2:Wait, they had communication.
Speaker 4:We did. We have a satellite phone and Nobody died listeners right Nobody.
Speaker 2:Because that whole horrible thing you just went through with your….
Speaker 4:We didn't die, but where was death this year on the crossing?
Speaker 2:Oh, on the crossing? No, no, I'm just saying you didn't get a phone call from anybody saying that no, no, no.
Speaker 3:It was someone amongst the teams, oh.
Speaker 4:I'm not saying it happens.
Speaker 2:I mean you're rowing an ocean and you sign that waiver and you're like, yeah, Did you see sharks? That's my biggest fear.
Speaker 4:We saw sharks we saw whales, we went through storms gosh. We capsized after a five day storm, about a thousand miles from land, and so that happened. But the boat self-righted and we climbed back on. We got hit by a marlin. Our rudder was snapped in the middle of the night. You know we what?
Speaker 2:about they are crying in the beginning.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, emotions that you had to go through because of what you guys decided to do yeah, so again an answer of uh, if people, if you think about sitting on a rowing machine and you're rowing away from land, but you're looking at land and you're thinking this might be the most stupid thing I've ever decided to do in my entire life and suddenly everything, you, just you start crying and you cry for days and it's a.
Speaker 4:Thing in ocean rowing. I don't know what it is, but it's like therapy times a thousand and eventually you got yeah, you're stripped down. And Charlie and I looked at each other after like four days I was like we've just got to stop crying.
Speaker 3:I'm kind of ignorant. Are you all, like all the teams together? No, you don't see anyone else Unsupported. So you can't see anyone, You're just on literally like basically on an island on your own, like in the ocean, by yourself with just Charlie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and who are these other people you're competing against?
Speaker 4:You know, military guy, I mean it's an amazing group of people and the ocean community is amazing and small but wonderful. You know, it takes a certain person to want to do it For 40 days doing that over and over.
Speaker 2:So when it's over, do you all come together. Yeah, yeah, for 40 days doing that over and over.
Speaker 3:So when it's over, do you all come together?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, no everyone's finishing at different times, and so you know we came in at 40 days and some people came in at 100 days.
Speaker 1:You know, it depends on where you are. That's amazing.
Speaker 4:So I think one person was out there, for I give us probably 120 days on their own.
Speaker 3:On their own.
Speaker 4:Yeah, some people do it on their own, on their own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some people do it on their own. What? What I caught from that again, from that interview, was the party on the cliff.
Speaker 4:Okay, so life, yeah, great, finish this race. Imagine this, guys, yeah. Wait, wait wait, did you win?
Speaker 2:We did they won, you won the whole thing, they won the whole thing.
Speaker 4:We won the pairs, you won all of them. I think we're in the top 10 in history, y'all are like teens.
Speaker 3:This is amazing yeah.
Speaker 4:But again, that's a lesson in life. Charlie and I were not athletes. We worked really hard, but we also were a great team and we decided to have fun and we played amazing. Our thing was own the night. So turn the night, which is arguably one that you think of as pretty scary, with big waves, but actually the night is the most perfect time. It's big waves and, but actually the night is the most perfect time. It's cool. The sky is insane. You don't have to like do all the chores that you do in the day, so we just put the loudest like dance music on and just would row and it was just epic and we kind of so.
Speaker 4:um, so yeah, we, we came in first the first pair and then, and then we came in on a Saturday night at 5 o'clock, sun setting in Antigua, in English Harbor, all the horns going off from the big ships that are there. It's just a mega feeling. You're seeing your family for the first time. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh sure I would be weeping. I'm weeping right now.
Speaker 4:And then there's a great, and then there's a famous party in Antigua at Shirley Heights on a Sunday night. The whole island like reggae thing.
Speaker 3:Was Kate there.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, the kids were on my shoulders. Oh, it's killing me. Go till two in the morning, it's like jerk.
Speaker 3:She has to be so proud.
Speaker 4:Goat and fish, and it was. It was like both my kids wedding and and Shirley Heights the best night ever you can't ask for something else you can't duplicate that.
Speaker 3:This is like a one and done experience.
Speaker 2:Whoa wait a second now.
Speaker 3:He's a career adventurer.
Speaker 2:So what's next Is?
Speaker 4:the question, would I row another ocean of answers?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely More importantly, you raised a bunch of money we did.
Speaker 4:We raised $150,000 for the Green Heart Project and we can always work with them since we've had the restaurants. They're an incredible organization. Um, they do really great work and really robust curriculum in charleston county public schools. They uh build gardens in in charleston county public schools and they teach um maths and science and nutrition through through these gardens and they're totally integrated in the school system and the curriculum and they're they have teachers in each of the school system and the curriculum, and they have teachers in each of the schools and then the produce either ends up in backpacks or the canteen or in cooking classes.
Speaker 4:That's cool. So, yeah, it's a really cool program Developing some chefs.
Speaker 4:Well, it's a life thing. I always think people leave school and they can do certain math they'll never use again in their life, but they don't know how to cook an egg. I would say like there should be that lesson like hey guys, you gotta eat three meals a day, and like what you eat affects how you feel and long-term health, but we don't really talk. It's probably like an hour in biology when you're falling asleep which is crazy to me people go into a store and they're like oh my god, I just don't know what to do.
Speaker 4:But we spend time on pie and I still don't know what pie is.
Speaker 2:What is a pie? Oh my gosh, that's a great point. Okay, so now we did it. You did the thing. Now what else?
Speaker 1:matters right.
Speaker 2:You've got to have all the confidence in the world You're going back to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm back at work. So you're back at work.
Speaker 2:That's great Running this 250-person show yeah.
Speaker 4:Talking about confidence, I think, if you say the four lessons from rowing an ocean is this, and I really it's like. Firstly is be kind. Yeah, because you can't be. You can't be an like when you're tired. When you want to be like you two people, you need a whole village to get you through this experience and, um, you have to have really hard conversations and and so be kind. Number one uh, be humble.
Speaker 4:Because people who think they're going to dominate something, or like they can lift a lot of weights in the gym, or like they're good for like 30 minutes a lot of weights in the gym, or like they're good for like 30 minutes mother nature, on a five-day storm, when you haven't slept. It doesn't matter about your weights or how you look in the mirror and you're gonna get absolutely nailed. So you got to be really humble and respect that process. Resiliency stuff goes wrong. You run out of money, you don't have a boat, you know I can't sign up, the rudder breaks, you get hit by a marlin. You just can't like be resilient, right and and and laugh when it goes wrong, cry, then laugh and then, um, then finally is is be prepared and like do the work. And if you've done the work, like the. The rudder snapped but we had a spare rudder. We had a spare rudder because we went through what? What are the single points of failure? And um?
Speaker 4:another good story, another good, it is it is, and there was a little a lot of that but but being prepared, and I think if you take all those things and you actually drill down into it, they're very simple but very hard and you've got to be focused on that. So that's what I came back with. So it's not just life-changing, it's different. You go back to work and you think things go wrong. How do I deal with it?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 4:You know I want to do something new. We'll prepare.
Speaker 3:Do you get the bug now to go on another adventure after something like that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think if you've experienced what high highs and low lows are, you want a little bit of both, so like skydiving, is that? Next. You know I'm very afraid of heights.
Speaker 2:Are you going to go to Mars or?
Speaker 4:something I don't know. I would love to Rowing another ocean. The Pacific would be definitely a life goal.
Speaker 2:What was that?
Speaker 4:The Pacific, oh you want to row the Pacific? Would I do that? Yes, am I doing that right now? No, oh, you're talking about a podcast and right now I'm doing a marathon a month.
Speaker 2:Okay, a marathon a month yeah.
Speaker 3:A whole marathon a month.
Speaker 4:A whole marathon a month.
Speaker 3:We're doing one on Sunday if anyone wants to join?
Speaker 4:Where is this marathon on sunday? This one I was meant to do? Um, we were going to be doing denver, but I'm not. I just had too much on the works we do sunday. I'm leaving for the isle of palms on 32nd street and you run. I've got a nice route that's on online. Um, that takes you to basic kitchen um nice I love it yeah, um so, yeah, we're doing that and yeah, other than that, that's my goal how many? Miles, is that 26.?
Speaker 2:Holy smokes. So it's the whole thing, the whole thing. Yeah, I didn't do the math.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 26.2.
Speaker 2:I did two, I did three earlier today, see.
Speaker 3:Okay, I do see you sometimes running in the neighborhood and I try to wave at you.
Speaker 2:Oh, you do. Yeah, if you see me just kind of walk over me, I'm probably dead on that.
Speaker 3:So how many marathons have you done in your life so far?
Speaker 4:well, I just started this year. I ran the first one in. January in Athens, georgia, then I did Nashville in Feb and then I did DC in March, london in April and Isle of Palms now, and then I think I'm doing Missoula and another one in Colorado. I got 15 on the books for this year.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh 15 on the books. So that's it. What about your buddy Charlie? Are you guys doing any kind of combo team thing? You know, no, we're not.
Speaker 4:We have a great relationship. I don't think we need to do everything together for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3:I would like to meet Charlie.
Speaker 4:And you should have Charlie on here. Yeah, yeah, I mean, charlie and I are still incredibly close. You know best friends and we stepped off that boat closer than when we set off. That's amazing and we laughed together and cried together and shared some incredible experiences and so forever we will have that.
Speaker 2:It's going to be you, charlie and Kate, on an episode. Stephanie and I are just going to be on the background, for sure.
Speaker 3:I do feel like I can see you Would you ever consider doing a television show Like an actual docu-series?
Speaker 4:I don't know if anyone wants to hear that I would want to hear that it's been a fun.
Speaker 2:45 minutes so far, I think a docu-series on Netflix.
Speaker 3:Just talking about, I mean, this is very it's very inspiring.
Speaker 4:There's some very accomplished people in this world.
Speaker 3:I just watched Baby Reindeer, so that wasn't very accomplished? I haven't seen that, oh, that's wild. But I but I haven't seen that. Oh, this is wild. Uh, but I feel, I feel like you're just such an interesting guy, but it also is very hopeful for someone like me who's not athletic I might be able to run a marathon with matthew you, you absolutely can.
Speaker 4:I'm I'm much more interested in like doing that with people, so like I think we put out I've got 25 people running this weekend.
Speaker 4:I put it out on instagram in charleston and people were like I did put free breakfast and drinks at basic kitchen, which is I didn't think that many people would sign up, so everyone was like god, we're already fully booked, um, and it's all free, um, so it's amazing how many people will run a half marathon for a breakfast, uh, so yeah, so we, so we're doing those sort of things and I think people will show up this weekend. I think I've got four people running the marathon and I've got 21 people running or maybe more running the half marathon, and that's all like in three days on Instagram. So, yeah, I'm much more interested in that stuff.
Speaker 3:So you're doing that while being the CEO of all these restaurants.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:This is a pretty busy season. Right now, this is summer, I mean.
Speaker 2:We're busy. He's got a good team. How many restaurants have you opened?
Speaker 3:We've done seven or eight when I walk into Post House Inn on Father's Day is it going to look a lot different.
Speaker 4:It will.
Speaker 3:It's going to look like you. The aesthetic.
Speaker 4:It'll just be a big picture of me behind the bar.
Speaker 3:You're like wow, this place makes total sense. Good job, kate Aesthetic. It'll just be a big picture of me behind the bar. There you go and you're like wow this place makes total sense Good job Kate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I hope you enjoy it I can't wait, I'm excited. It feels like a great neighborhood tavern and we've definitely done a lot to make it feel like it.
Speaker 3:That whole part of the city is just so cute and quaint.
Speaker 2:What is it? Is it the so cute and quaint? And what is it so? Is it the uh old village?
Speaker 3:old village?
Speaker 4:yeah, it's really, I love it. I need to go down there more often just walk around. Yeah, it's lovely, it's very cute. Yeah, we do. If you guys, we do a great um holiday fair in. I think it's the second weekend in december and there's like 5 000 people come and we have uh, we block off the old village, the little street, and we have maybe 30 vendors and bands yeah, second week in december. So that's our big marketing effort for post house who so a lot of makers from, from, from here and from other parts of the country come and do that.
Speaker 2:It's, it's amazing I've never been to that yeah it's called you do everything I know and I feel like I'm learning something for the first time today. That's what the whole idea?
Speaker 4:about these podcasts are. Anyway, you should.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm definitely going to, I'm definitely going to go.
Speaker 4:It's great, it's a big deal.
Speaker 2:Don't be surprised to see me racing after you one of those days, just randomly showing up I'd love that and then falling five miles later. Thanks for being with us, hanging out with us, Ben. Oh my God, Thank you very much.
Speaker 4:Stephanie, do you have any last questions?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to know what he sees coming up. You've accomplished so much already since you moved to Charleston.
Speaker 2:She's really digging it.
Speaker 3:She wants to know what that next thing is I'm just really excited, as usual.
Speaker 4:As I said, we'd like to continue being entrepreneurial and working with good folks. I'd love to do another Basic Kitchen or just sort of a tagline there is cleaner fuel, longer adventure. Yes, and I kind of love, I, just I love what we're doing at Basic Kitchen, I love Charlie and the team and we'd love to sort of grow that kind of casual, healthy dining scene. So I'd like to do another one of those or something in the spirit of that.
Speaker 3:And it's on Instagram. It's basic kitchen, right yeah?
Speaker 4:Yeah, at base kitchen, at post house in and at Solomon's fish camp.
Speaker 2:Lovely, lovely, and I want you to close this off with your explanation behind. Be where your feet are. I like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I took that away from the podcast earlier.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we had. We had a sticker on the boat that said be where your feet are, and it really is. When stuff gets tough and it does get tough and don't look too far ahead. And this really happened when rowing through a storm really rowing into a storm and knowing how gnarly it was going to be and all you can do is just be present right there and be where your feet are and eventually you'll get through the other side. But sometimes in life, if you look up and try to look too far ahead, it's all overwhelming. So if you're going to do big things, just be present, be where your feet are, one foot in front of the other, and then who knows where you'll end up. Yes, sir, it's been a real event. Thank you very much. You're remarkable. Thank you very much leading very inspired.
Speaker 2:Before we leave we need to thank our sponsors Charleston Radio Group, jerry Fields Good and, of course, the American Marketing Association. If you want to be a sponsor or a guest on our show, reach out to podcast at charlestonamaorg. Go ahead and review and rate us. Stephanie want else on amaorg? Uh, go ahead and review and rate us stephanie, you want to say bye?
Speaker 3:yes, guys, thanks so much for being here. This is such a powerful conversation. It's been a blast. Thank you for being here thanks for having me, guys bye guys next time.
.jpeg)
